Cooties - the New Hospital Superbug

[steepholm]

I must admit I'm a bit baffled by this story, which was the lead on the news this morning. I mean, is this really the thing that people are most concerned about with the NHS? I suppose I can see that a lot of people would rather not have mixed-sex wards (I imagine a lot of them would rather have a room to themselves, in an ideal world), but separate toilets and bathrooms? Since when was that a big issue? It's not as if people are asked to stand next to each other in a communal shower, after all.

Am I missing something? The politicians and their interviewers all seem to be taking it for granted that it's a major disgrace this wasn't done years ago, rather than questioning whether it's as burning an issue as hygiene, queues, unavailable drugs, etc.

Either way, mixed-sex wards are due to be phased out by the end of the year. I wonder how long it will be before the papers report on the first person to die after being turned away from hospital despite beds being available, just because they were the wrong sex? My guess is January 2011.

Comments

[sheenaghpugh]

It's partly a problem because of those bloody hospital gowns that gape at the back, and partly because men on geriatric wards have been known to wander about not caring what's on view. I think there have been incidents and even attacks. Maybe it's a thing women mind more than men (after all, look at the amount of exposure men are used to in public loos, which seems unthinkable to women). It would certainly have put me off going into hospital, though I don't like the places anyway.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I do see that some people - and maybe more women than men - might wish not to share a ward (though as kalypso_v points out below, there are sometimes very good reasons why they might); but I still don't understand about the toilets and bathing facilities. I don't think I've ever been in a house where these were sex-segregated, so it's not as if people aren't used to using the same facilities!

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

No, but they are used to sharing facilities with people they know, and that makes a difference. I had to stay in a cheap hotel a couple of years back with shared bath and toilet facilities, and found it distinctly unpleasant to be sharing a bathroom with strangers. Sharing mixed facilities with strangers in a hospital ward, particularly when one is already stripped of one's dignity by the sheer fact of being in hospital to start with, repels me.

Admittedly, I am extremely fastidious about such things, but even so ... What a mercy I appear to be mostly fit and healthy.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

The guest house we stayed at in Blackpool last week was similar. I was a bit off put, because a) the light went off when you were in the middle of a shower (it was triggered by a movement sensor, and when in the shower I was invisible to it), and more particularly b) the toilets had no basins, just anti-bacterial gel. Actually that was a bit yuck, and I'd definitely rather have had an en suite, but I can't say it occurred to me to wonder what sex the previous occupant had been.

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

Well, it's more the meeting them on the way in and out I find unpleasant, particularly if the surroundings are a bit iffy to start with.


Mind you, as I said, I am a bit fussy, even with single-sex facilities. I prefer to avoid the facilities in the library, for example, as the bulk of the users still seem to think they're in primary school, whereas the facilities in the School of English are rather nicer.

[sheenaghpugh]

Yes, but in a house you know all the other people who are using them! Also you aren't sick and feeling you don't want folk to see you at less than your best... you might say that goes for both genders but somehow it'd seem worse to be on view to the opposite sex then...

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I think it bothers some more than others, so I'd be happy if there were an option (and might say "Whatever's free" for myself). But I remember last time this one was doing the rounds we knew an elderly couple who were dying in separate hospitals, never mind wards. No doubt there was a practical medical reason for this, in the nature of their illnesses, but their daughter was having to drive from Barrow to Kendal to visit them, and my brother kept saying "Wouldn't it be better for everyone, particularly the couple, if they could be put in adjacent beds?"

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

That seems a very good argument for keeping arrangements flexible and responsive to the needs and wishes of actual patients, rather than outlawing the thing in this blanket way.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Labour kept promising to segregate wards, then remembering it had more important things to do.

I guess it's the sort of issue that plays well with the Daily Mail.

[gillo]

A lot of elderly ladies really hate men seeing them unwell and feel threatened by men in nightwear wandering around. They feel remarkably embarrassed by having to share bathrooms etc with men. As older women seem to dominate a lot of hospital wards, I suppose it is a big issue for them at least. I can understand their discomfort, though I agree that c-diff, MRSA and teh like are rather more important.

A decade ago hospitals had gone a bit too far with the unisex wards, IMO - but it's hardly a really big problem any more - which is why it's a cheap stunt to announce the end of it. Not that there'll be any money to convert remaining old hospital wards, of course.

My Green Wing icon is more or less mandatory here, I think.

[emmaco.livejournal.com]

I wondered about it this morning, and decided I didn't want to be in a hospital ward or sharing a bathroom with sick people at all, regardless of gender. But I remember when I was in Carlisle hospital (my only overnight hospital stay occurred when I was backpacking when I was 20) and the women in my ward were all having a ball. They were gossiping, and saying how it was like a holiday not having to cook etc, so maybe they would have gender preferences as it was more like a holiday home than a hospital.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

It's also what people might overhear - I know it sounds nuts, but vomiting on the other side of a door from the opposite sex is really grim, whereas you know other women (or men) are going to understand. I'd rather be in an all-female ward, simply because it means a whole lot of stuff you don't have to worry about.

I do however agree with the person who made the point about elderly couples dying in separate hospitals. Flexibility and compassion have to be key if at all possible.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I know it sounds nuts, but vomiting on the other side of a door from the opposite sex is really grim, whereas you know other women (or men) are going to understand.

I've got to admit I find it really hard to get my head round this notion, but you're clearly not alone!

[gair.livejournal.com]

But will there be separate wards for butches and femmes? Or will I have to share bathrooms with femmes? They will constantly be in there doing their hair!

/sarcastic

[gair.livejournal.com]

I am also wondering, in the story you linked to, what 'clinical justification' there is for putting people in mixed-sex wards. They use the phrase a couple of times eg I am determined to put an end to this practice, where it is not clinically justified.

And when I say 'wondering' I mean 'burningly curious'.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

It's a good question! As far as I can see, the only exceptions they're allowing are A&E and intensive care, where the justifications is presumably ones of practicality and expense respectively, but not clinical in either case.

[gair.livejournal.com]

Weird, isn't it?

I read the case study the BBC story linked to, which was all about how awful it was having a man walk round with no trousers on and come & sit on your bed & say aggressively I'll sit where I like, which is indeed awful, but I couldn't really see why it was worse than having a woman behave inappropriately and aggressively on your ward. But then I realized: this isn't about mixed-sex or same-sex space, it's about the uncontrollability of male violence.* Which, it seems to me, is a problem better solved by holding men accountable for their actions and not condoning/promoting male aggression than by rigging up vote-winning strategies which rely on an assumption that only gender-conforming cis people are entitled to 'dignity' (or indeed medical treatment).

So, in short, in the end I got quite angry about this.

*At least, I haven't seen any arguments from men saying they're scared or uncomfortable when women are around, and I'm leaving the modesty stuff to one side for the moment.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Agreed!

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

I think you could certainly say it was clinical in terms of intensive care. The ICU staff have special training and skills, so doubling up such wards is wasteful not only in terms of equipment but also in staffing. But sex of the patient is not so relevant because if a patient is in an ICU, they are likely to be unconscious or deeply sedated and certainly will not be capable of wandering around. ICUs are staffed 24 hours a day, as are A&E units.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

The ICU staff have special training and skills, so doubling up such wards is wasteful not only in terms of equipment but also in staffing.

Yes, but that's a (perfectly reasonable) argument about resources rather than clinical need.