steepholm: (Default)
[personal profile] steepholm
I'm not the best person to generalize about television, since I don't watch enough, but I've spent the last twenty minutes staring from my bed at the cracks on my bedroom ceiling and wondering about the differences between types of sitcom, which probably makes me enough of an expert for LJ purposes.

There's a truism that the big difference between US and UK sitcoms is that the former are gag driven, while the latter are character driven: viz. the difference between, say, Friends and Steptoe. This may or may not be (but probably is) connected to the difference in the way they are written: roomfuls of writers in the States, and single or pairs of writers in the UK.

I think the first half of that equation is true enough, at least as a generalization. That isn't to say that Friends et al don't have characters but that the shows are designed primarily as a series of pegs to hang gags on. It is only a generalization, though, and at times different cards can be shuffled to the front of the deck. I think for example of the two-hander episode of Family Guy (generally a very gag-driven show) in which Stewie and Brian spend the weekend talking in a locked bank vault. But there the writers seemed to be quite self-consciously "doing" that kind of episode, almost to show they could: it isn't their stock in trade. Whereas two-handers for, say, Steptoe and Son, were what the show was all about, and when they stepped outside that they had nowhere to go but the land of slapstick, where they were generally less successful, at least in the gentle art of Entertaining Steepholm, which is the highest end of all comedy. One could say similar things about Hancock or even Last of the Summer Wine, which in its early years consisted very largely of three old codgers wandering aimlessly about the Dales, putting the world to rights. The runaway-trolley silliness with which the show became associated took over only gradually.

I'm not sure that modern British sitcoms are character driven or gag driven, though. Nor are they even interested in a wide variety of situations. Especially since The Office, they seem to thrive specifically on creating theatres of embarrassment. Gags aren't at the heart of it: The Office was faux-documentary, which meant that gags - at least good ones - had no place at all, while one of the most successful sitcoms of recent years, Outnumbered, depended largely on letting its enfant terrible actors improvise cringe-making dialogue. Yes, there are characters in these shows, but if they are sympathetic and recognizable, that's largely because we need to empathize with them in order to feel their embarrassment effectively, rather than because the show's about them in themselves. They are enough like us, or like people we know or have been, for us to project ourselves into their situation. (I suspect this is what Aristotle wrote in his lost book on comedy - in which case, I agree with him.) Many more recent shows work on this formula, or perhaps I should say with these priorities, from The Inbetweeners to more recent outings such as Gates, but even something like Fawlty Towers wasn't character driven in the way that Hancock was - it was all about the embarrassment.

I wonder if this helps explain the relative dearth of historical sitcoms? I really can't think of that many. There's Blackadder, of course, and going back a bit there's Up Pompeii!, that curious mixture of New Comedy and seaside postcard, but that's about it. They tend towards the slapstick, anyway - as of course did the various historical Carry Ons at film length. Perhaps this happens as things pass from personal memory into history proper, and the chance for personal recognition disappears. Think of the difference between Dad's Army (began 1968) and 'Allo 'Allo (began 1982). The first is character driven, albeit with the same caveats as for Steptoe and Hancock: the parts that make the show worth watching are the ones where not much happens, but as soon as a large prop makes its appearance we know that a pratfall into slapstick will swiftly follow. 'Allo 'Allo by contrast is deliberately stylized and pinned together with catch-phrases (not that Dad's Army lacked those). The first was written for an audience that still, by and large, remembered the war; fourteen years later a demographic tipping point had been reached, the war was history, and the style of its comedic representation changed accordingly.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 10:58 am (UTC)
lamentables: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamentables
"the parts that make the show worth watching are the ones where not much happens, but as soon as a large prop makes its appearance we know that a pratfall into slapstick will swiftly follow"

That's very much how I felt about The Archers at the point I stopped listening. The thing that hooked me was all those episodes where nothing happened; the thing that drove me away was the descent in John-Wellsian melodrama.

I can't really comment on the comedy/sitcom thing as I have a desperately low embarrassment threshold and am generally more pained than entertained.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 05:43 pm (UTC)
kalypso: (Radio)
From: [personal profile] kalypso
I just grit my teeth when the melodrama starts on The Archers and wait for the real story to resume. Which it always does eventually. I don't know why they think they have to do the melodrama, but they're obviously very proud of it as they start doing trailers whenever they've got one running.

I find a lot of comedy too painful to be funny, and that includes most of Fawlty Towers. And then there was The Royle Family, which I thought was brilliant, but I couldn't understand why it was described as a comedy; to me it was an enthralling but horrifying drama about the emptiness of family life.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 04:07 pm (UTC)
colorwheel: six-hued colorwheel (judi dench)
From: [personal profile] colorwheel
i could debate you on a whole bunch of those points, and i'd enjoy it. i consider myself an amateur sitcom critic. i watch tons of sitcoms from both sides of the pond and i have my own two axes on which most sitcoms fall.

however i have to work all day and all week so i can't do those those things right now. but we could have sitcom dialogue another week if you'd like.

were you using truism as "thing that's true" or "thing that people consider true but may well not be"? i've seen it used both ways.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 04:49 pm (UTC)
colorwheel: six-hued colorwheel (judi dench)
From: [personal profile] colorwheel
buff, that's the word! i'm a major sitcom buff. IMO friends is not the least bit gag-driven until the very latest seasons. must work now, but sitcom chat sometime in future hopefully.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 07:39 pm (UTC)
colorwheel: six-hued colorwheel (judi dench)
From: [personal profile] colorwheel
now i'm a bit wondering if we're being being, as they say, two nations separated by a common language -- how do you define a gag?
Edited (typos) Date: 2012-09-23 07:39 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 08:15 pm (UTC)
colorwheel: six-hued colorwheel (judi dench)
From: [personal profile] colorwheel
oh dear, you're (not for the first time) at least partly way over my head. the last few things you mentioned i don't know from. verbal wit and punchlines, in my way of thinking about sitcoms, are different from each other. i think of punchlines at being at the expense of the scene or character in some way, and i think of verbal wit as potentially integrated into a scene/character/show such that there's a wholeness.

to me, one thing that matters in verbal wit (in sitcoms) is whether there's a cohesive character doing the speaking, such that the type of wit matches with the character -- and not just with a flat version of the character (something that could be summed up easily) but with that character's depth. i find this to exist on friends until the last few seasons. i find it not to exist on many sitcoms. i'm assuming you don't agree on this, but i figured i'd spell it out.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 11:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poliphilo.livejournal.com
Slapstick can be wonderful- but it has to be done wonderfully, the way Buster Keaton and Laurel and Hardy did it. The sitcoms you're talking about usually did it half-heartedly and therefore not very well.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 11:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
Agreed on both counts. I love Laurel and Hardy, and also Harold Lloyd - and it's salutary to see people reminded that they are also physical objects. But I'm too verbal a person for this to be my very favourite kind of comedy.

ETA: Perhaps punning (to which I am addicted) is slapstick for words?
Edited Date: 2012-09-23 12:00 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
Frasier was a character driven sitcom--but rare.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 02:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
Yes, that's true. There were still gags, of course, but character came first.

Most comedies are hybrids to some extent. Thinking about [livejournal.com profile] poliphilo's comment above reminded me that David Schwimmer on Cheers was actually an excellent physical comedian, but that was largely lost as an ingredient in a show that worked to other priorities.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 02:57 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] diceytillerman.livejournal.com
Was David Schwimmer on Cheers? A guest role? I can't find it documented.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
Sorry, not for the first time I wrote Cheers when I meant Friends. It's a recurrent mental tic of mine.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-09-23 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] diceytillerman.livejournal.com
No worries. I know Friends like the back of my hand but I dislike Cheers so haven't seen many eps so I just assumed I'd missed a guest role.

RE:

Date: 2012-09-23 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] magaddude.livejournal.com
Отличный ответ Подробнее... (http://cupimim.supercharts.ru/)

Profile

steepholm: (Default)
steepholm

April 2025

S M T W T F S
  12 3 45
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
27282930   

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags