steepholm: (Default)
[personal profile] steepholm
I am a very shallow person. I feel terrible for the family of young April Jones, especially now it's emerged that she has cerebral palsy and needs medication. I feel terrible for April Jones herself. I'm awed by the way the local community has worked together to try and find her.

But I still can't help correcting the radio every time a BBC reporter fails to pronounce "Machynlleth" properly. What have I become?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 07:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com
I wouldn't feel too guilty- you've plainly noticed and reacted to the main news on the item and feel for this poor little girl and it's a natural reaction. Kent has a lot of place names that don't pronounce as they look:

Meopham is Meppum
Wrotham is Rootum
Trottiscliffe is Trosley.....
Leigh is Lie

.......and many more and it drives me nuts when they get them wrong on the media (especially in traffic reports).
Edited Date: 2012-10-04 07:51 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 08:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
The isle is full of shibboleths. It was similar when Jo Yeates was murdered. Her parents lived in a village near where I grew up, called Awbridge (pron. "EH-bridge"). I bit my tongue. But Machynlleth is pronounced just as it's spelt.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 10:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com
Ah yes, but that assumes you know that Welsh is 'internally consistent'. :o)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-05 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ethelmay.livejournal.com
As an iggerant American, if I were reading a book about the place, I'd be saying in my head "Mackinleth," more or less. Is that too far out?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-05 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
The "M" and the "eth" are spot on! The bits in between need some work, though. LJ probably isn't the ideal medium for this, but under correction from my Welsh-speaking friends I'll have a go.

First of all the "a" isn't short, as in Mack. Nor is it quite as long as in "barn". Try somewhere in between.

The "ch" is a fricative, as in "loch".

The "y" is like an English "u", at least in this case. So, altogether, "chyn" rhymes with "bun". This is also the stressed syllable.

As for the "ll" - this is the one non-Welsh people often have difficulty with. You need to position your tongue as if you were about to use an "l", but before releasing it, let the air come round either side of your tongue. Very roughly, it sounds like a breathy "l". But I've called in my friend Mr Youtube to give you a better idea.

So, now you know all you need to know - and more than many English people!

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 10:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wellinghall.livejournal.com
Moving up to the Midlands -

Belvoir is Beaver
Kedleston is Kessun
Croxton is Crowsun
Sproxton is Sprowsun
but Stroxtron is Strawsun
Edited Date: 2012-10-04 10:28 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 08:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mevennen.livejournal.com
It's not just you. I suppose it's just as well this didn't happen in Penrhyndeudraeth.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 09:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gillpolack.livejournal.com
It is, because I can pronounce Machynlleth, but Penrhyndeudraeth is confusing. Give me local names like Cuppacumbilong any day.

I'd be worried if you weren't feeling miserable. Feeling miserable and noticing mispronunciation is a perfectly normal combination for someone who is aware of place names anyhow.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com
Or even Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 01:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com
What's hard about Ynysybwl? I have family there so it seems like an utterly familiar placename. It's also not somewhere visitors go, unlike Machynlleth, so I haven't heard people having trouble with it.

One that threw me recently was Llwynypia, where I have a relative in hospital. I kept reading it as Llwynympia, as some horrible Welsh/Greek mashup, and I actually had to go and look up what "pia" meant -- it's "magpie" apparently -- to see it as a proper word and pronounce it the way it's supposed to be.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/
I have family near it, too. But it seems to throw a lot of people because, if you don't speak Welsh, it has no vowels.
My personal bete noir is the name Ellylw. I know how it's said, but it trips me every time.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wellinghall.livejournal.com
I am reminded of the police constable who was asked what he would do if he found a body in Auchtermuchty Street. "Drag it round to Queen Street." Why would you do that, he was asked? "Because I can't spell Auchtermuchty."

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:52 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 10:54 am (UTC)
ext_14294: A redhead an a couple of cats. (blodeuwedd ginny)
From: [identity profile] ashkitty.livejournal.com
You've become not alone, is what. I know it's a hard word to say if you're not used to it, but all it takes is a little practise.

It's getting really troubling there's been no sign of her yet. :(

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
The BBC has a dedicated Pronunciation Unit, too. Where are they?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:35 am (UTC)
ext_14294: A redhead an a couple of cats. (Default)
From: [identity profile] ashkitty.livejournal.com
Years and years ago, I applied for a presenter job at BBC Wales. (I couldn't actually be hired because they don't do work permits, but I sent it anyway. Young and naive!) Anyway, the sample audio bit was a traffic report that contained both 'Machynlleth' and 'Dolgellau'. This is how I learned that if you try to speak Welsh with an American accent you choke on your tongue. The result was not great, I'm afraid....

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
I just tried that myself, and you're not kidding! The tongue's just that much further back in the mouth to begin with, and it has nowhere to go but the trachea. Definitely not to be attempted except in the company of someone trained in the Heimlich manoeuvre.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 07:06 pm (UTC)
owlfish: (Default)
From: [personal profile] owlfish
The Pronunciation Unit issues lists of pronunciations on things currently in the news - but that doesn't force the presenters to actually consult those lists. (A friend of mine used to work for the Unit!)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
They obviously need to employ enforcers!

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 07:19 pm (UTC)
ext_12726: (Barmouth bridge)
From: [identity profile] heleninwales.livejournal.com
It is very worrying. :( I've just been watching the coverage on S4C and it really demonstrated the magnitude of the problem the search teams face. If she's not in the town, she could be anywhere. There are miles and miles of forests and mountains dotted with old mines, steep river valleys, drainage ditches. It doesn't help that the weather is wet and cold.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 10:01 pm (UTC)
ext_14294: A redhead an a couple of cats. (Default)
From: [identity profile] ashkitty.livejournal.com
Yeah, and the longer it takes, the worse it looks. Even with half the countryside out looking for her.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 11:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/
I don't know, but whatever it is, I've become it too. I've been saying the word back to them regularly.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 12:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kalimac.livejournal.com
I reflexively correct the radio station announcers (here in the US) who pronounce the name of the composer of Water Music and Messiah as if he were part of an ax.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 10:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ethelmay.livejournal.com
I don't think that's so bad -- he was a naturalized British subject, so there being an Anglicized version of his name in common use makes sense. If you're going to say "George" rather than "Georg" (as I think my local classical music station does) it makes sense to go on with the English version. And Händel isn't THAT far off "handle" anyway.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 12:47 pm (UTC)
ext_90289: (Default)
From: [identity profile] adaese.livejournal.com
You're not alone, we were talking about it in work earlier. They never really got their tongues around Eyjafyallajokull, either.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
It's true - they used all kinds of circumlocutions like "the Icelandic volcano that erupted recently". But they probably feel they can't get away with "that little town near Aberdovey".

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 10:02 pm (UTC)
ext_14294: A redhead an a couple of cats. (Default)
From: [identity profile] ashkitty.livejournal.com
I admit I still just call it 'the Icelandic volcano'. But were I still a radio presenter, I would have practised saying it right. :p
Edited Date: 2012-10-04 10:02 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-05 05:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
I think that's the crucial difference! And for those reporters on the spot, it's not as if there aren't plenty of Welsh people around to give them tips.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 01:13 pm (UTC)
gillo: (Bear with quarterstaff)
From: [personal profile] gillo
Huw wossisname on the Ten O'Clock News can do it, but that's because he's Welsh anyway. I find their inability to pronounce the name annoying, too, even though my main focus really is on the little girl.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 07:30 pm (UTC)
ext_12726: (Barmouth bridge)
From: [identity profile] heleninwales.livejournal.com
I actually thought that most of them have been doing a fairly decent job of the pronunciation -- though perhaps I haven't been hearing the newsreaders you have been hearing. But I was somewhat horrified that one of the worst name-manglers was on the BBC Wales news! Absolutely no excuse there.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 02:29 pm (UTC)
ext_6322: (Line Kalypso)
From: [identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com
I remember a friend who had spent time in Japan was infuriated by American television reporters in 1995 who kept talking about the "Koby" earthquake. I think he thought it disrespectful to the dead of Kobe not to learn what was, after all, a pretty easy pronunciation: "Kobay".

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steepholm.livejournal.com
He had a point.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-04 05:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com
One grows to expect this from a nation which pronounces Iraq 'eye-rak' and Arab Ay-rab! :oS
Edited Date: 2012-10-04 05:27 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-05 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ethelmay.livejournal.com
Oi! We don't all do that. Not even most of us, I don't think.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-05 07:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com
A lot of your newscasters and politicos appear to though! :o)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-05 03:52 pm (UTC)
ext_14294: A redhead an a couple of cats. (Default)
From: [identity profile] ashkitty.livejournal.com
Well, certain corners of it do, but it's not how most of us speak! /disclaimer ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-10-14 09:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
I don't think I'd have noticed, had Huw Edwards not pronounced it beautifully on 'History of Wales' just a few days previously...

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