A Tale Told by an Idiom

[steepholm]

Yesterday one of my Japanese language partners asked me about the "故事" (koji) used in English. What are koji, you ask (as I did)? Apparently they are "idioms derived from historical events or classical literature of China". Did British history yield many idioms in common use?

I have to admit, my mind went blank. It's easy enough to come up with idioms swiped from literature, notably Shakespeare, but history? Most English idioms seem to come from common experiences, crafts and professions, the natural world, and so on. They don't tend to involve famous people or events - or, if they do, they don't stretch beyond a single word (Canutian, anyone?). The best I've come up with so far is "met his Waterloo".

There are some from the classical world - which stands to Britain much as classical China to Japan: "cut the Gordian knot", "Caesar's wife", or even "a cobbler should stick to his last". I could probably think of a few more, but it's still surprisingly thin pickings.

It's not that my mind is badly stocked with interesting facts and anecdotes (many of questionable veracity) about British and classical history, but that they've somehow failed to morph into idioms. We know about Alfred and the cakes, for example, or Robert the Bruce and the spider, but there isn't any common idiom derived from either encounter that might be muttered by people in similar circumstances.

Is there a rich vein of such sayings that has somehow slipped my mind? I would of course be happy to hear suggested examples!

Comments

[sovay]

Is there a rich vein of such sayings that has somehow slipped my mind? I would of course be happy to hear suggested examples!

Coals to Newcastle? (Or is that not event-specific enough?)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I suppose it's social history now! But I was thinking more specific.

[As a matter of fact, Newcastle is the only place my friend has stayed in in the UK. From an accent point of view, it's certainly jumping in at the deep end, to use a non-historical idiom.]

[sovay]

But I was thinking more specific.

To read someone the Riot Act?

The full Monty? (Assuming the folk etymology tracing to Field Marshal Montgomery is true, which it might totally not be.)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yes, that's a good one! (I mean the Riot Act. I'd not connected the two senses of Monty in my mind, nor heard anyone else do so, but I wouldn't discount the possibility!)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see there are several competing derivations!

[sovay]

I mean the Riot Act.

Great!

I'd not connected the two senses of Monty in my mind, nor heard anyone else do so, but I wouldn't discount the possibility!

Huh. It's the only association I have for the phrase; I assumed it was common! Wikipedia lists Montgomery as one of several possible origins, but World Wide Words thinks it's more likely to trace to the tailoring firm Montague Burton. In which case it would still count, being a historical source? [edit] Okay! You've seen the same link.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Yes, either would do. And in fact by mentioning a tradesman, you've just reminded me of another idiom: "Hobson's choice", after the Cambridge carrier livery stable owner.

[sovay]

And in fact by mentioning a tradesman, you've just reminded me of another idiom: "Hobson's choice", after the Cambridge carrier.

Nice!

(My brain promptly quit on Britain and started supplying me with classical references instead: Pyrrhic victory, bread and circuses, etc.)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I should definitely have a classical sidebar, given that koji includes Chinese imports. Both of those are excellent.

[sovay]

I should definitely have a classical sidebar, given that koji includes Chinese imports.

If you open it up to classical myth, we'll be here for days—Procrustean bed, labors of Hercules, Greeks bearing gifts.

[edit] All Sir Garnet's British!

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Indeed - a whole other diet of worms...

(I must admit that "all Sir Garnet" was new to me. bows head in shame)

[spatch]

sovay says I oughta throw some out there but it is late here and we are both punch-drunk from fatigue, so after laughing over cricket terms I have but two:

Tapping the Admiral (Nelson's body transported home from Trafalgar in the brandy)

Bob's your uncle (the uncle in this case appears to have been Robert Arthur Talbot Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury, who as Prime Minister appointed his nephew Arthur Balfour as Chief Secretary for Ireland; hooray for nepotism!)

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

The playing-fields of Eton?

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Going at something bald-headed?

[sovay]

I must admit that "all Sir Garnet" was new to me.

derspatchel just sprung "black as Newgate's knocker" on me!

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

From Arthurian legend:

Round table
Holy grail
Sir Galahad
and there must be others...

And from Roman history:

Crossing the Rubicon
Ides of March

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, I'd heard the first but didn't know about the origin of the second - thank you!

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Certainly qualifies as a Waterloo reference in its full form, thank you.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

There you've got me. I neither recognise it, nor know the historical reference. Can you enlighten me?

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

If we're excluding classical myth then I suppose we ought to exclude Arthur, at least in his more obviously unhistorical, high-chivalric incarnations - but yes and yes to the Caesarian refs! Thank you.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

http://www.nam.ac.uk/online-collection/detail.php?acc=1963-07-31-1

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm learning a lot from this thread.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! :-)

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

He's a quisling?

[redbird]

That's European history, but not particularly British: Vidkun Quisling was the Nazi puppet prime minister of Norway.