Prosopagnosia Strikes Again

[steepholm]

As I've mentioned here before, I have a degree of prosopagnosia, or face blindness. This is quite irritating when trying to sort out family photographs, so I'm throwing myself on your collective perspicacity. Can you tell me whether these people are the same?



The woman in both these photos is Lucy Tonge, my great great- aunt. But is the man the same in both cases? I'd thought her husband was called George, but the man in the lower photo is identified as Tom. Could they be father and son, or the same person taken quite a long time apart? (I imagine Lucy's changing dress style would give quite a clue, if I knew more about costume history.)









I'm fairly sure that the first person is my great grandmother Maria (born 1854). But is she the same person as appears in the second photo, also identified as 'Maria'?








You may remember my great great-aunt Fanny (1850-89) - who was one of the first British women to become a qualified doctor. In the top picture she is looking young and idealistic. But is she the same person as in the second picture, identified as 'Fannie Butler' - perhaps exhausted by work and the unforgiving climate of the subcontinent?

Comments

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

Set 1 looks to me like the same man in both ... I'm going on the mouth, the persistence of the type of facial hair, and also the luxuriant wave of the remaining hair.

Set 2 have a similar shaped face, and indeed similar ears, and there is something about the eyes that suggests they are the same or closely related. Not so sure about the mouth, but there could be many reasons why the smile becomes lop-sided. The younger one looks great fun!

Set 3 looks like the same person to me. Again, ears and mouth look very similar in the two photos.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I think you must be right, re. sets 1 and 3. I wonder if Rev. Tonge is wearing the exact same coat, in fact?

I've only just noticed the cross being held by Maria No.2, which seems at odds with the rather low church family into which she married - if indeed she married my great grandfather.

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

Re: coat, no, they have entirely different collar styles.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

So they do.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I am no expert, but the man in the top and the bottom seems to be the exact same man--the distinctive shape of the mouth is the same, the skull under the (similar beard) seems the same.

The second pair seem to be different women--the eyebrows on one are flat, and there's a natural arch on the other, and the mouths seem completely different.

The third one definitely looks like the same woman to me--just aged.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

PS the name thing isn't always an indicator, especially in times when it would turn out that a lot of people were christened with the same first name. Like, my first boyfriend was Robert Edwin Western, but everyone called him Eddie. His dad was Bob.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I suspect it's something of that kind in this case. I don't know very much about the Tonges, unfortunately.

[lamentables.livejournal.com]

1. For a moment I thought you were asking whether the man & woman were actually the same person.

2. The second man is clearly Jonathan Pryce. I think the first probably is too.

3. I'm convinced the Dr Fannys are the same - very distinctive ears.

4. I'm not sure about the Marias.

5. My father's brother, George, was known to the whole family as Pete, which led to some confusion on my part about how many uncles I actually had. They'd made a firm decision to name the baby Peter, but on the way to the [christening? how were names made official back then?] they met someone they wished to impress - a distant and wealthy relative I think - and promised that the child was to be named George in his honour. No benefit ever resulted from this.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

That's a very affecting anecdote! (I know what you mean about Jonathan Pryce.)

[intertext.livejournal.com]

I would say the man is the same in both pictures.

I think the third woman is the same as the top two, but the fourth is different. I would say the bottom two women (the Fannys) are the same.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I think the answer is "the same" in all three cases. I'm least confident about the Marias, but both women have very large- and distinctive ear-lobes, so I think they have to be the same person- with the second picture showing the younger version.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

The problem with family photos is that you expect a certain amount of resemblance.

The only thing I feel fairly confident about is that the Marias are not the same woman. The eyes, the cheeks and the noses all seem different.

[calimac.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. I can't imagine how one would be certain about something like this.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'm not good at faces, especially in still photos, but from the costume, I'd put the first picture of Lucy Tonge as early 1860s, and the second one as early to mid 1880s, which could support the "same person many years apart" hypothesis. This is, however, going from dimly remembered knowledge of Victorian costume history and family photo-dating from many years ago, so could be wrong. If I remember it correctly, if you can see a woman's ears, it's after 1865.

And Googling Maull and Polyblank, who took her first photo, reveals that the company only existed until 1865, so there's confirmation of the dating there.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

And Googling Maull and Polyblank, who took her first photo, reveals that the company only existed until 1865, so there's confirmation of the dating there.

That's smart detective work! Lucy looked so unchanged, compared to her husband, that it seemed almost kinder to imagine he was someone else.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Set one: the same.

Set three: the same-hte mouth and chin.

I think set two is two different women--the eyes and the mouth are very different.

[sovay]

Can you tell me whether these people are the same?

In the third case, definitely; if the first case is not the same man, then it's an astonishing family resemblance. I don't think the second set of photos is the same woman, but I'd place them as close relatives.