The Welsh Diaspora

[steepholm]

"Can you name a Welsh person who became famous without having to leave Wales to do it?" asked my son.

After some umming and aahing I wondered about Catherine Fisher, but she's not famous enough, apparently - at least yet. Dylan Thomas? But he did a lot of networking, and indeed living, in London and elsewhere, didn't he? Owain Glyndwr, perhaps? Oh darn - even he spent quite a bit of time in England, IIRC. Same with Giraldus Cambrensis. Then there are Taliesin, Gwydion, Pryderi, and all their chums from the Mabinogion. But I think being mythical probably disqualifies them.

Oh gosh, I feel there must be hundreds, but my mind's a blank!

Comments

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

J. P. R. Williams? Not that I'd expect your son to remember him. But given that I remember him despite having no interest in rugby, I regard him as famous.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'll happily accept that one, given that I too remember him despite having no interest, etc, etc. Thanks!

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

Ditto ... and I have no real interest in rugby, other than watching the beginning of New Zealand games because I am far more interested in the haka.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

Similarly, Max Boyce. ('Then JPR scored again and God said "You should have been specific!"' came into my head as soon as I saw his name. I haven't thought about him for years.)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness, Max Boyce - yes. I always thought of him as a kind of Welsh Jasper Carrott, which is probably unfair to both of them.

[brisingamen.livejournal.com]

Probably unfair on both of them. Carrott's humour was more immediately accessible, I think, but there was something about Max Boyce on occasion. He sang better, when he finally got around to it, and his songs were stronger ...'Hymns and Arias' is a song that is springing to mind as I write this.

[gair.livejournal.com]

This reminds me* of a friend who gave me a copy of the Magnetic Fields' Baby You Could Be Famous ('Baby you could be famous/ You could see your marble face all around/ Baby you could be famous/ If you could just get out of this town now') with a wry 'how true, how true'...

... he lived in LONDON.

*by being completely the opposite of

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Or, as John Cale has it:

"There is only one good thing about a small town
You know that you want to get out
When you're growing up in a small town
You know you'll grow down in a small town
There is only one good use for a small town
You hate it and you'll know you have to leave."

These are sentiments I detest, of course - self-justifying, self-congratulatory, contemptuous, insecure, patronizing, etc. But I want evidence to show that they're not also objectively true!

Oh what is the pond/fish size ratio most conducive to human happiness?

[a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com]

different ratios for different humans, I think. Hence the Town Mouse and the Country Mouse.

Except, of course, that people in huge cities* do tend to create (or want) areas within cities that retain the neighborly/neighborhood feel of small towns!

*proper cities, not places like Los Angeles.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

R S Thomas? He's certainly famous on the continent (though it took me some time to realise who it was that the Germans always referred to as Ronald Thomas). Kyffin Williams. Colin Jackson. The Ladies of Llangollen. Terry Griffiths still lives in llanelli.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

R.S. Thomas definitely: I feel bad about having forgotten him! I must admit I had to google Kyffin Williams - not that this is a measure of his fame rather than my ignorance. The Ladies of Llangollen ended up in Wales, though, I think, rather than starting out there.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

If we're looking for people who never move out of their country of birth for work or other reasons, I don't think you'll find anyone famous of any nationality. Becoming famous presupposes a bit of energy and initiative, however you do it! Sportsmen and actors/performance artists all need to travel to do their job; it makes no real odds where they start out.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

A fair point. The size and power of the country make quite a difference, though, don't they? I'm sure there are plenty of famous Americans who've not moved out of the States, for example. Writers ought to fare rather better but if the levers of cultural power are being operated by a more powerful neighbour, even they may need to move. (And of course, they may want to.) Shakespeare never left England as far as we know, but he couldn't have made it if he'd stayed in Stratford.

[mraltariel.livejournal.com]

Technically, Terry Griffiths had to go to Preston, or Sheffield, or Reading, to get famous ;-)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

That's true - and by the same token, Colin Jackson had to go to Stuttgart, etc, to win his medals.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

The Ladies of LL were actually Irish.

Can't think of anyone off hand, except my great uncle Neville achieved limited fame for supplying strong drink surreptitiously to teetotallers and never left Haverfordwest, let alone the Principality.

[rymenhild.livejournal.com]

How are you defining "Wales"? The Mabinogion bunch existed in a time when the ancestors of the Welsh possessed more or less all of Britain.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

True - and that might rule some of them out, though I think the three I mentioned were all pretty much based in what is modern Wales. You'd know better than me, though!

[rymenhild.livejournal.com]

Oh, of course, you're right. I'm not sure about Taliesin, though, because the more I learn about him, the more I realize that we know almost nothing at all about him. The poetry attributed to Taliesin is so vague about details and has such polysemous vocabulary that there's very little way to tell what's going on.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

With him I was going by my visits to Borth, just north of Aberystwyth, where he seems to be regarded as something of a local hero. But isn't there some confusion about Taliesin the ex-Gwion and friend of Elphin and Taliesin the poet? Borth very much claims the former, as far as I can see: I don't know about the poetry.

I ruled out Aneurin, by the way, because he was based in Strathclyde - and had to go to Yorkshire to find immortality in glorious defeat!

[hafren.livejournal.com]

I ruled out Aneurin, by the way, because he was based in Strathclyde - and had to go to Yorkshire to find immortality in glorious defeat!

But that part of Yorkshire was part of our territory then!

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

But that part of Yorkshire was part of our territory then!

At daybreak, yes; by sunset, not so much. (Hey - iambic!)