steepholm: (Default)
[personal profile] steepholm
I was looking up the ancient anthology Manyoshu (万葉集 = collection of ten thousand leaves) just now, because it is apparently the source of the new era name, 令和, and I came across a Wiki entry for "makura kotoba" or "pillow words." Pillow words seem to be a bit like (Wiki's own comparison) standard Greek epithets such as "grey-eyed Athena" or (what seems to me a bit closer, since "grey-eyed Athena" still contains "Athena") Old English kennings such as "whale road" for "sea". Anyway, this bit intrigued me:

Some historical makura kotoba have developed into the usual words for their meaning in modern Japanese, replacing the terms they originally alluded to. For example, niwa tsu tori (庭つ鳥, bird of the garden) was in classical Japanese a makura kotoba for kake (鶏, chicken). In modern Japanese, niwatori has displaced the latter word outright and become the everyday word for "chicken" (dropping the case marker tsu along the way).


That gave me a "now it all makes sense!" moment, as "niwatori" had always struck me as slightly odd.

I feel there must be quite a few words in English where a poetic term has replaced the ordinary one, or at least because as common, but I'm having trouble coming up with them. "Robin" for "redbreast" by way of "robin redbreast" is one, I suppose, and you can trace a similar route for some rhyming slang: it only occurred to me the other day that "Use your loaf!" involved rhyming slang, for example. But surely there must be other/better examples?

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-01 05:44 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
That's an interesting question I don't remotely have an answer to, but now I'm going to be thinking and thinking and thinking about it.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-01 09:45 am (UTC)
shewhomust: (mamoulian)
From: [personal profile] shewhomust
I can give you a French example, which only goes halfway in English: the original word for a fox was 'goupil' (Latin: vulpecula) has been replaced by 'renard', the (proper noun) name of the fox in the 'Roman de Renard'.

There may - I only half remember this bit - be something a bit taboo about calling foxes by name. English has 'Reynard the Fox', and Mr Tod, so there's a similar avoidance, but these names don't actually replace 'fox'.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-01 01:22 pm (UTC)
cmcmck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cmcmck
And of course the fox here has become Reynard or Mr Reynolds or the 'Daddy Fox' and 'Reynardine' of the folk ballads.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-01 10:51 am (UTC)
calimac: (Default)
From: [personal profile] calimac
I think there's a number of words of rhyming slang which have been normalized this way, though my mind doesn't keep a list of them.

By the way, an echo of Japanese-style era names remains in the UK, or at least did until recently, as Acts of Parliament are identified by the year in the monarch's reign in which they were passed.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-01 11:40 am (UTC)
calimac: (Default)
From: [personal profile] calimac
The French were also very happy to use informal era names derived from reigns, when they still had reigns. I recently blithely remarked in a review that a piece of atavistic music sounded as if it came from some lost operetta of the Second Empire. That sort of thing.

But I was thinking of the eagerness to know the new Japanese era name on the grounds that they need it for dating formal documents, etc. That's where the UK Acts of Parliament are parallel.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-01 04:23 pm (UTC)
larryhammer: animation of the kanji for four seasonal birds fading into each other in endless cycle (birds)
From: [personal profile] larryhammer
I hadn't known niwatori was originally a pillow word! Cool. (Though it feels weird typing "pillow word" -- in my own translation commentary, I call it a "stock epithet," as that really is what it is.)

(You probably know this, but つ is an archaic form of the possessive の -- it still shows up in a couple deity names and the like.)

(no subject)

Date: 2019-04-20 05:23 am (UTC)
ethelmay: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ethelmay
IIRC the French "tete" is derived from a Roman slang term for head, "testa," or "pot."

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